Back in 2015, I had the opportunity to interview Bruce Swedien. A staple figure in Jackson’s musical output, I was keen to get his take on so many of the classic songs that he played a key role in. But Bruce had other ideas, he wanted to use our interview to “reminisce about Michael”. Of course, with musical engineering ingrained within his DNA, I knew he’d occasionally be happy to divert to discuss some of those processes (and microphones) that he used to record some of the most recognisable songs of our time.
After learning of his passing in November 2020, I went back and looked at our interview and find it really touching. The admiration he had for Michael as both a creator and a person is evident throughout. In tribute to Bruce, I’ve decided to share it here in full.
Many will know your name but may not necessarily know what it is you do. What would you say is your ‘job’?
Well I don’t know! It is very difficult for me to explain what I have done with Michael. The only thing I can say is that he is the only artist I have worked with who is the best, incredible and a very nice young man! The greatest! And he was such a wonderful young man to work with that it made me want to the best I possible could when working on his music!
The output speaks for itself! Can you explain how you got into the music industry?
Oh Boy! My mother and father were both musicians and I think they wanted me to be a classical pianist and they made sure that I studied piano very diligently as a youngster and I did. We soon found out that I didn’t have the ability. The ability was left out of my making! However my daughter Roberta Swedien is a superb pianist and she can really play! The only problem is she is into classical music and I am not! I love popular music, Music that speaks to everyone! And that is basically how it happened!
From these humble beginnings and building your experience as a technical expert, when did you come into contact with Michael for the first time?
That is a great question! We were working on a movie with him! The Wiz, which is the urban version of the Wizard of Oz and Michael was the scarecrow….I loved the crows! I remember that like it was yesterday!
And he sang “You Can’t Win”…Do you remember that moment, live?
OH of course!!! He was absolutely brilliant, and it just amazed me how fantastic he is, … or was I guess!
That’s a mistake most of us make.
It is hard to think of him as gone you know!…From the beginning….Michael was born near Chicago which made him a Midwesterner just like me as I was born in Minneapolis so I guess we had that in common right away!
So what was your first impression of him?
OH WOW! [Laugh] I have to think for a moment … Michael had a very strict childhood; Michael’s father was not a really nice man! Michael wasn’t at all like him! Even though his middle name was Joe! He was really rough with Michael. But Katherine was a pretty good singer and I have a feeling…they kind of emulated her in terms of musical abilities.
Have you ever heard Katherine sing?
I haven’t! But I bet she is great! Can you imagine! I spoke to Katherine one time and she said that Michael was one and a half and dancing to the rhythm of the washing machine! So he got that dancing thing very early and of course that beautiful voice!
When you were in the studio with Michael, how did you like to record that voice?
One thing I’m known for in the industry is a collection of microphones! I have 105 mics and I bought them all new and it is incredible that when you think of it that I started to record Michael on a U47, which is probably the most well known microphone ever made! Great microphone! However, there were something about it that I didn’t like, and I couldn’t put my finger on it, or what it was we needed. After much thought I realised Michael’s vocal needed a dynamic microphone! It just fit that voice and in my ear it was the only possible way to record him so I used my Shure SM7 which is a dynamic mic and it sounded just GLORIOUS! It’s one of those things that it seems this microphone was made for Michael Jackson!
Did you use it on anybody else?
I did! I used it on Vincent Price! He sounded fabulous! Vincent is very tall! Like 6ft5 and Michael is not! Vincent ended up sitting on a stool in front of the mic! But listen to that recording and you will hear that it is the same microphone that I used on Michael!
Did you use that one for all his recordings?
NOOO! I didn’t! [Laugh]. We did “Earth Song” which I used another one because I felt with that song it was not working! I have a collection of them! I keep them in a little room in the middle of my house where they are safe!
Did you ever show that room to Michael?
No he’s never been here! He did come to our house in California! We lived in an agricultural area and Michael came home with me one day, he met a few kids from the family and it went mental [Laugh]… Michael was the greatest! He was just phenomenal!
He certainly was! You worked with him on every single album! Which one is your favourite?
ALL OF THEM!
All of them! You don’t have a particular favourite?
Well, Thriller! Because it was with Thriller that I met Vincent Price and I am a big fan of Vincent. He was incredible! I will never forget the day we recorded Thriller. Vincent came in and did that vocal on my Shure SM7 for his rap, I guess that is what you’d call it! “Darkness falls…” and so on! I told Vincent to put his headphones on! It was the first time in Vincent’s career that he used headphones and I remember his face like it was yesterday. He just lit up! Crazy! Fantastic response and there it is!
Which song did you most enjoy working on for Thriller?
Oh Thriller itself! Yeah!
Why is that?
I think it gives me the most space to put my sonic values into the music. The thing that made Thriller is the fact that they have my sonic personality firmly imprinted!
What do you mean by Sonic personality?
Boy! You are serious aren’t you?
[Laugh] yes!
Sonic personality is what I put into the music – I just have to do it that way! I cannot allow myself to work in any other way. And none of it is technical. A lot of people think of me as Grandpa Technic! But I am very fussy! Michael & I just worked well together!
How did you and Michael work together? Did he leave things in your hands?
Totally! But he’d leave me notes from time to time.
How was Michael in the studio?
Very much like the public persona because Michael was dedicated to quality. For instance, before he’d record any vocals, he would warm up with his vocal coach. We never did a recording until Michael spent two hours warming up! Any of these modern artists doing that? I don’t think so! Oh Boy! He was just that unique!
What would you say his other qualities were as an artist that made him so unique?
Michael was absolutely the non-laziest artist and vocalist! He could actually play piano very well!
Did he play on any of his tracks?
Oh yeah! He sure did! I cannot remember which one but I remember seeing him! My memory is not that great!
The 20th anniversary of the HIStory album is upon us, so let’s talk HIStory…
Well, the HIStory album, I absolutely love! As a matter of fact, I am holding it right now! It’s one of his finest! Let’s see…Disc one…Billie Jean, the Way you Make Me Feel, She’s Out Of My Life, … That was written by a friend of mine, Tom Bahler. It’s a fabulous piece of music and BAD, I Just Can’t Stop Loving You, Man In The Mirror and of course Thriller!
Did you work on the HIStory project in its entirety?
There are maybe 2 recordings that I didn’t work with Michael on. He worked with someone else.
Which one were those?
Scream which is on the second disc and History – I didn’t work on that one! But there is something really unique about HIStory: Do you know what his favourite song in life was?
SMILE! He just loved it!
Do you know why?
Why do you love some pieces of music more than others? Because you like it and you like how it makes you feel! That is the only reason!
Do you remember when he recorded Smile?
I do! David Foster came in to do the arrangements and it was just great, a very unique session I hold close to me!
So, you won some Grammys for Thriller, Bad and Dangerous. Were you surprised you didn’t win one for HIStory?
No because music was already changing – I’m very pleased I have 5 Grammys though!
How many of those were won through your work with Michael?
[Laugh] It’s terrible but I don’t know! Grammys are wonderful but to me the real joy is to be in the studio and not winning Grammys! And as for Michael, the real joy was just working with him! I mean can you imagine, I have done some recording for other artists where they have an unknown value of the music they are working with! Michael was so different!
What would you say was one of the things that few people knew about him?
Edgar Allan Poe! He had an obsession, you know!
He was supposed to do a movie on that at one point, wasn’t he?
Yeah! I love Edgar Allan Poe also very much but it is interesting to think about Michael like that. You never think of him having an obsession about anything! People think of him almost like Peter Pan but it is a devotion that Michael had that never made it to his obituaries! He was an Edgar Allan Poe fanatic! Absolutely fanatic! He long planned to star in that movie about the horror writer!
In the later years, Michael changed his style completely for Invincible, where you involved in that too?
Yes but, that was Invincible, you know?! It’s certainly wasn’t anything like Thriller!
How was it to work on that album as it was so different to all his past albums?
It is hard to describe but I knew it wasn’t the same! The feeling wasn’t the same!
For the recording of Invincible, Rodney Jerkins said Michael recorded on Analogue. Can you explain this and the reason for doing so in a digital age?
Well, sure I can! It is interesting; I always loved the sound of music recorded. It’s something dear to me! I am not very enthusiastic about the sound of digital recording, especially when it comes to music. There is something about digital that never seems to sound pleasing or musical. To me an analogue recording of music just sounds better than a digital recording. By the way, Rodney is great! The only thing is he plays the speakers WAY TOO LOUD! A lot of times when I worked with Rodney, I had to stop the tape recorder and leave the room. I told him “if you are going to listen to music that loud, I am not going to work with you” [Laugh] because I have been very careful about my hearing over the years and so as a result, my hearing is in pretty good shape! There is something about analogue that’s …when we listen to well recorded music, we can literally hear people making music; with digital recording is more about technical end of it and no separation between who is doing what. Analogue music recording is very pleasant! I think Michael would agree that it is so important! Why on Earth would you like to listen to music which is not very pleasant? I wouldn’t!
Did Michael prefer as well to record on Analogue?
Michael told me: “Bruce do whatever you think is right!” and I did! I’ve recorded a lot of singers and Michael is probably one of the only vocalists that I’ve never had to use pitch correction on the vocals! Never! His singing really came out of his mouth [Laugh] ready to go on record! Unbelievable!
So you never used it even on Invincible?
NO! No!
Incredible! It seems these days most artists will use that method!
Yeah well they will do because they are not Michael’s quality! Personally, I maybe wrong but, I don’t think we will see anyone like Michael again!
I think you are 100% right!
He was just incredible! I miss him terribly!
Did you have a chance to see “This Is It” movie?
Yeah!
What did you think?
Mmmh! I think it was about people trying to make him what he wasn’t! They skipped all the things that made Michael different such as his obsession with quality and warming up before a session and all that stuff! – Oh he was so wonderful and that wasn’t shown!
Did Michael confide in you a lot?
Oh yes! Yeap! – My wife Bea used to drive Michael!
Really? drive him where?
Anywhere he wanted to go! I remember he had a big blue Rolls-Royce and he was not a very good driver! But he drove himself and he would get lost on his way to the studio! [Laugh]
What’s your favourite memory of Michael?
Oh Boy!! Probably when we were doing the song with Paul McCartney, The Girl is Mine! “the doggone girl is mine” [singing] That session was really special to me personally. That is true Michael! But my favourite part of all of it is to work with Michael! He had a nickname that Quincy gave him you know…
Is that Smelly?
Smelly, Yeah! [Laugh] Oh you know your stuff!
Tell me about ‘Smelly’…
The reason is that Michael was a Jehovah witness so, he would not curse! So for something bad or nasty, he would say “AH! That’s smelly!” So after while Quincy gave him the nickname of smelly!
So, Bruce, what would you say you learn from Michael over the years?
I learned from Michael? WOW! I learned that my feeling about quality in the work that I do is the most important thing because that was true with Michael. Michael really cared about quality!
In what way?
Not in recording quality because that is easy! But musical quality! The composition, his voice, his understand of a record.
And what do you think Michael learned from you?
Ha! I don’t know! Probably the fact that I was willing to do my absolute best for him! I think what he learned is that it is ok to not hold anything back! Do it like it is forever!
Is this what you said to him when you were together?
I don’t think we had to tell Michael anything! Here was the singer who was coming here to record and all his music was from memory! He would not have the lyrics in front of him! Michael was working with all the songs committed to memory! Tell me who will do that today? No one!
What’s your plan for the future? What are you working on at the moment?
I am working on my book! The Bruce Swedien Recording Method! And that would be out in October and it is driving me nut because I wrote it, it is done but my editor Bill Gibson is completing it!
So, October! We will be looking forward to it!
Go buy a copy!
Finally, Bruce I just want to say Thank you so much for the work you created with Michael!
Thank you and Long Live Michael Jackson! Thank you!
Pez Jax Talks to Bruce Swedien – 2015
This Interview is not to replicated or translated in whole or in part without permission.
